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I spoke with a tonewood supplier a few days ago and he told that lots of suppliers sell wood that isn't the species you think you're buying. Does this actually happen?

You probably already know that universities will analyze wood for free and tell you exactly the species and other details easily. I've done this many times through the local state cooperative office. Do I need to actually have the tonewood I'm buying tested to make certain I'm not being scammed?

Specifically regarding tops, do you find the quality from one supplier to another to be radically different?

-j

I have used nearly all of the tonewood vendors that are sponsors to this forum and have found them to be very reliable and I have always gotten what I have ordered. But I do not have the DNA analysed. I have had more of a hit or miss experience ordering off of ebay.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

Thanks. I supposed that was the case otherwise they wouldn't be in business long but I had to ask.

-j

There are some that have some unusual grading methods which can make it difficult to know what you are buying. Also some pretty crappy pictures. I find it hard to respect any business that has to diss their competition to try to make themselves look good. If the supplier told you there are "lots" doing it, I would be wary of that supplier. Shop local, OLF, and you'll get the real deal.

Jimmy I would beg to differ AND be skeptical of who told you this because it's the classic "negative sell..." Negative selling is a cheap shot and an effort to control the client with fear, uncertainty and doubt.... Anyone who said that to me would be off my supplier list for the duration....

I'll second that OLF sponsors that I have bought from were all stand up guys and always went way above and beyond. No misrepresentation IME ever from these very fine folks.

eBay is a different matter. Not a week goes by that someone does not walk into our shop all excited about what they "won" on eBay. We have to be the folks to tell them that the mando they brought in is not a G*bson and instead someone made a cheap silk screen of the G*bson name and transferred it onto a valueless Chinese mando. Buyer paid $800 - total loss, not worth a penny....

Or the guitar that they "won" for $600 that might be worth $600 after the $600 neck reset, bridge reglue, fret dress, new nut, reglued braces, and replaced broken tuner knobs. Cost of repairs around $1,000, cost of guitar $600.....

Lots of stories of fake BRW off eBay too and it's often Kingwood but touted and priced as BRW....

I never bought anything off eBay beyond a truss rod cover for my Dot that was billed as new.... After three tries to get the Chinese seller to send me one that did not look like it was on the floor of the factory being stepped on for several years I gave up.....

No fan of eBay here....

Anyway one of the benefits of the OLF is the sponsors are as good as they get, all of them that I have ever dealt with and some of them are even decent human beings too....

I think that I spent over 20 grand with OLF sponsors and never once was I dissatisfied. That's notable!!!

Some of the wood suppliers who sponsor the OLF sell on ebay so it's not all bad.

People have very different experiences with ebay. I've bought quite a few wood sets and neck blanks from sellers on ebay and haven't been burned once. Some of them are spectacularly nice. A couple ebay sellers have even thrown in free stuff like a big chunk of amboyna and ziricote and koa headplates. I've also made a couple hundred purchases on ebay over the past twelve or so years including about 60 guitars and a dozen mandos. All good to excellent. I think people sometimes run into trouble there when they don't recognize or choose to ignore red flags in listings. Some also forget that if it's too good to be true, it's not.

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Have had NO issues with any OLF sponsor .

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Thanks for the responses. I will point out that this was NOT a I OLF sponsor. I think I'll be sticking with the sponsors here. eBay isn't my bag either. I've been forced to buy some things on eBay because I couldn't get them anywhere else (NOS Italian bicycle parts) but that's a rare situation.

I'm going to try a torrified red spruce top from Colonial just to see what the fuss is all about. I saw John Hall's video and was intrigued. Seemed like an obvious difference to me. I question how long a torrified top will last but what do I know?

Thanks again,

-j

Not to worry! Once a torrified top begins to age beyond its useful playing life you can just put it back in the time machine and run it backwards. The only downside is that if the guitar is involved in something that somehow changes an event in the past it could result in your parents never meeting, so you would never have been born, and then you won't exist anymore.

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George :-)

This sounds vexing and so very intriguing. We should write a screenplay!

Usually when I want to go back in time I just put instant coffee in the microwave.

I must admit I didn't write the above concept, Stephen Wright did.

Heard my first torrified top on a brand new Dana B. guitar a couple of weeks ago.

You know me, a torrified denier.... but I have to tell you that this guitar sounded fantastic and had it all too in terms of tone. The top was a bit darker, a bit more yellow but still very pretty anyway. Of course Dana B. had everything to do with it too in that he is a fantastic Luthier but still for a brand new guitar, heck for an old guitar this was a 95 out of a 100!

It was also set-up very well which is rare these days for guitars from anyone especially f*ctories.

I think we've mixed threads here.

Hesh, don't be a torrefied denialist. The stuff works and feels entirely different than regular wood. It's the only topwood I'd be comfortable picking out of a double blind test 10 fer 10...

I love ebay!!!! some of my best buys have been wood from olf suppliers selling on ebay, I have also bought boards off of ebay that I couldnt find locally or on any wood websites , the latest was a fantastic piece of quarter sawn zebra wood. I just don't understand the disdain some people have for ebay?? Ebay sellers have to be prompt on shipping and maintain good feedback ratings to stay in business...maybe some who sell on ebay might chime in...

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MK5acoustics.com

Hesh, you mentioned playing that guitar in another thread and that statement piqued my interest. It wasn't someone selling a guitar or tonewood but a player and a builder that swayed me to check into it. I went through the YouTube videos and listened. Some of the videos were pretty lame: comparing a Sitka to a torrified Adirondack is not a comparison. Then John Hall's video came up and I thought this is something I can tune into. I sincerely doubt there's any trickery with Hall's video. The Sitka sounds very vanilla in comparison and the torrified had a shimmer to the notes and nice sustain. When I played electric I was never one to mess with effects, I was straight reverb and go, everybody else was busy fooling with effects all the time. Hall's torrified guitar reminded me of just a touch of reverby feel. I'm attracted to that sound.

I can deal with the coloring of them. Especially later when I make a black guitar.

So really I'm blaming you for this but that's a good thing.

-j

Regarding eBay. It's mostly that I don't want to have to sit and watch and re-bid and hassle with it. When I need or want something I just want to pick up the phone, talk to a real human being and just buy it. Waiting a week, losing, re-bidding is a hassle. I'm more of a "Hi, this is exactly what I want. Here's some money. Thank you." Kind of guy.

Also I've been burned by eBay and exactly nothing happened.

Meddlingfool, geez I feel weird calling you that, anywho, sounds like you've got some experience with it. Will you confirm some of my suspicions about it?

I'm guessing it planes very easily since it's very dry and highly prone to ripping off at the edges? Wood in my shop that's really old is like that, absurdly dry is great but great care is required.

It's probably more difficult to glue due to low moisture content. Again just guessing.

Anyway, I'd love to hear more about your experiences with it.

-j

Also I've been burned by eBay and exactly nothing happened.[/quote]

did you take advantage of this????

With the eBay Money Back Guarantee, we ensure you get the item you ordered or your money back. We will cover your purchase price plus original shipping on virtually all items on ebay.com.

If you didn't receive the item you ordered (either received nothing or something that wasn't as described), you can use our eBay Money Back Guarantee process to resolve issues quickly.

Learn more about eBay Money Back Guarantee or get started by opening a request in your Purchase history page.

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MK5acoustics.com

did you take advantage of this????

With the eBay Money Back Guarantee, we ensure you get the item you ordered or your money back. We will cover your purchase price plus original shipping on virtually all items on ebay.com.

If you didn't receive the item you ordered (either received nothing or something that wasn't as described), you can use our eBay Money Back Guarantee process to resolve issues quickly.

Learn more about eBay Money Back Guarantee or get started by opening a request in your Purchase history page.[/quote]

I bought a GPS tracking system from China to fit inside my bike. It didn't work at all and I'm pretty adept with that kind of thing. I contacted the seller and he just gave me the run around day in and day out until the window for returns ran out. I sent an email to eBay about it and they did exactly zero. I ended up making my own out of an old cell phone and it works great.

-j

Don't worry, I picked the name myself back when Larrivee was still open and I needed to be anonymous.

I only planed the braces, but yes, it is brittle. It feels somewhat like driftwood. I had no problems gluing it, either the braces or the bridge, but I left I things clamped longer than normal.

It is really a thing unto itself. At some point I will spend some time doing some proper study of it. I'm very curious to know if the tonal differences between spruce species carries across into torrefied land too. I have a feeling they might not.

I only built one guitar from it which turned out wonderful, I parted with it reluctantly.

It's an OLF SJ, on the left.

That's a pretty guitar.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I generally try to clamp everything for 24 hours in any kind of woodworking. Overkill yes, but I find it works in the long run.

I read that Bill Collings had some trouble torrifying different species and is currently only using red spruce and maple for the process. Yamaha has been doing it for years and the guitars have held up well.

I'm excited to try it. Also, it's less expensive than I thought it would be for the flavor of the month. At first I didn't even look into buying one thinking it would be hundreds of dollars but the price is very reasonable.

-j

How much did you pay?

$130. Seems like a deal. I haven't received it yet.

I have sold quite a bit in the past, and I have helped the Hampton brothers (Matt and Nathan) in building their business through Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/usr/hampton_bros

Matt complained recently that some of their Ebay competitors are 'less than completely honest', but you have to just ignore it, and do what you think is right. The most problematical are the one-time sellers who have been told that the 'old board' they inherited was 'Brazilian rosewood' or 'African blackwood', instead of morado or gombeira.
With Ebay feedback, the ethical sellers will eventually win out. I have customers who have been buying wood from me for 25 years. That says something.

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John

Nothing wrong with EBay, but just take the time to know who the seller is. If they are legit, they won't hide behind some wacky cover.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I have bought from both A.Hix Tonewood and RC Tonewoods off of Ebay and both were great. To reduce the high cost in shipping to Canada I have bid and won multiple auctions and had some purchases from RC Tonewoods web site included in the same box (As they say, you can not have too much wood). Would not think twice about buying from them.

Ebay is nothing more than an enormous marketplace so it will always have good and bad sellers. I sell a lot there and try hard to keep my my offerings and customer service top notch but I'm sure not everyone does the same. Like any other marketplace the creme rises to the top, the wheat gets separated from the chaff, and insert your own cliched idiom here.